Cass Ingram on Christine McPhee's
Touch of Health - June 3, 2000
CM: Today's show, we're gonna be talking about how to prepare
for those super bugs, those super germs. We're gonna be talking about the
issues that happened in Walkerton. We've got a doctor that was right there
in----. So don't miss out. Dr. Cass Ingram will be joining us. I'm Christine
McPhee with the Touch of Health saying hello to all who are listening as
well as the new affiliate in St. Catherines.
CM: AIDS is a global epidemic. So is hepatitis. And drug resistant
microbes like staphylococci, salmonella and others as well as E coli have
been just escalating not only in the news but right here locally in Walkerton,
Ontario. The latest result with Walkerton, we've got outbreaks that over
a thousand people are sick, maybe more, and over 11 lives. Shelburne, Ontario
where they're not sure how to handle the situation, but many of the people
have been boiling their water and six wells are contaminated. Dr. Cass
Ingram who is a nutritionist and medical doctor has been flown in from
Chicago to be able to give us the insight of what's happening in Walkerton.
Tell me about that Cass.
Cass: I'm sitting here. Well, I was actually spontaneously on
the radio in the Walkerton area to help folks out and that led to this
mass movement. And I was flown in and gave a lecture in Walkerton to 250
people, sort of a charity lecture. And it was very interesting to see what
folks were dealing with so there's a first hand view here of what's going
on and I've been here ever since.
CM: What is E coli? What is that all about and how did it come
Cass: Well it came about, one reason. What is water? We kinda
take it for granted don't we? You don't think that you're gonna brush your
teeth and end up dead five days later or take a shower and somehow get
sick. When you wash your hands you don't think about it. When you wash
your fruit, there's no thinking. It's automatic. When you drink the water,
it's automatic. And E coli is not supposed to normally be in the water.
But it is a germ and the word "coli" comes from the word colon meaning
it's a cooling germ. E. coli is Escherichia coli which is a specific
germ that's found in the intestines but not just in the intestines of humans,
in the intestines of animals as well. And so you can start to think about
what's happening and what people are drinking. There are many kinds of
E. coli and I think that's important to make clear as well.
CM: What types are there?
Cass: Well, E. coli belongs to the E. coliforms. You'll see these
words in the newsprint, coliform bacteria, which means actually hundreds
of species. One of those is E. coli and the normal E. coli didn't cause
a lot of disease, Christine. It was, you know, a cause of kidney disease,
a cause of bladder problems, a cause of intestinal problems but it wasn't,
and in some epidemics in terms of sewage contamination, but it wasn't this
monstrous thing that would flat out kill somebody aggressively. But now
there's a different kind of E. coli and that's a mutant E. coli. Its a
man made trouble maker. It's a genetically altered, antibiotic induced
CM: A super bug.
Cass: It is a super bug. And it's an aggressive unknown entity.
It's a tough germ. And the big key is to understand what antibiotics do,
how these germs are created and why can't we kill it. Well it's a matter
of our immune system. A regular coliform, generally the immune system can
recognize. E. coli 0157:B7, the super bug is not recognized enough. The
immune system doesn't recognize it. It invades the gut wall and it's a
super germ. By being a super germ, it not only is invasive, not only is
it not recognized, but it produces a very aggressive toxin and that's what
CM: Could this be an epidemic?
Cass: It is an epidemic. There's not a could be. You can't have
just...it's an epidemic because it struck an entire town and it's not just
one town. There are other towns and of course that's for the epidemiologists
to put together. My expertise is certainly there but what I really want
to do is help people get ideas and uh, you know, knowledge so that they
can use knowledge as power and use the ideas in case this gets further
and it is a big situation.
CM: Were you at all in any of the hospitals at all?
Cass: I have been to the hospitals to disseminate information.
I've been asked by the families to go and, you know, disseminate valuable
information. So I have faxed and emailed material to the heads of departments
and so forth, just to educate them and give them some idea of what's up
in the scientific literature. They're busy doing what they're doing and
I'm busy doing what I'm doing. We're trying to co-ordinate that. Also,
I'm direly interested in getting to the ministry. Direly interested because
I have invaluable information, life saving information and you'll hear
how it's life saving. In fact, it already is life-saving, so, yes, that's
part of it.
CM: What could be done, or what is being done right now. So we're
treating it with antibiotics, is that...
Cass: No No No, they're really not because, I mean, look. If
you look at the National Post and you pull out the Germ Warfare editorial.
let's look at what our editorial writers are saying, that bacteria are
resistant to modern medicine. It was Howard S. Gold in 1997 who said in
the New England Journal of Medicine that there is no way that synthetic
pharmaceuticals will kill the plagues of the future. There's no way to
keep up with the mutants. We can't do it. The pharmaceutical companies
say we can't do it. And so antibiotics make it worse because it allows
this germ to produce more toxin and it's resistant to antibiotics. It was
created by antibiotics largely.
CM: Cass, we're going to go to Shirley Ann Wald (sp?) who is
a registered nurse in Walkerton. Maybe you could tell me, Shirley Ann,
what's the latest update?
SAW: Well um, there's still people that um...we ourselves did
not get sick but there's still people that, who had had the bloody diarrhea,
had a few days of feeling well and then it came back. The bloody diarrhea
had come back on them and I know a few particular cases and both of these
people had started on the oil of oregano and they are feeling better.
CM: Now , now we're going to be talking about that, but tell
me what is there more people in the hospital. Can they stand all this?
SAW: There were two airlifted out last evening, new cases. Um
I do not work in the hospital anymore. I've worked at the Walkerton hospital
for thirteen years and I certainly commend. I've worked in that hospital
and I don't know how they can handle this for as long as they have handled
it, because it's, it's a small hospital and they're doing a wonderful job
and it is an epidemic and the London hospital is doing a wonderful job.
CM: I heard, I heard two children were actually airlifted last
night from London.
SAW: To London from Walkerton, yes.
CM: Any other updates there?
SAW: I do not know.
CM: Well thanks very much for your call. Appreciate that, Shirley
SAW: Thank you.
CM: Gonna find more out from a resident, Pam Webber, who is gonna
give me some of her feedback. Her grandmother died. Is that right?
Cass: That's what I understand, yes.
CM: Pam, hello. Can you tell me what your family is feeling right
now and how everything's going?
Pam: Um, well, at this point in time we're just trying to deal
with the loss. Um, my street is, is not the most wonderful street. We've
also lost a neighbour and we also have another neighbour whose little guy
is in hospital in London. Um, and I'm not sure what his condition is at
this point in time. Last I heard um they were hopeful for his recovery.
CM: The whole feeling that I'm getting is run. You know, with
all these problems on your street and everything I feel horrible for you.
Anything else that you might want to tell me about?
Pam: Just that we do find a lot of comfort in the support that
we're getting from the surrounding communities. It's just phenomenal and
this, and this knowledge, and this oil of oregano that, that Dr. Ingram
has brought to us, it's, it's...I feel that it's awesome. Um, I know of
um a family um, that, that took it and, and gave it to their son and uh,
he's well now. He wanted to go to school but the schools are closed. Um,
but it's, it's just people have to um, open up their hearts and minds and
listen to what Dr. Ingram has to say to them while he's here. Um, he's
he's out of Chicago and he came here to help us, um, and bring us this
oil of oregano. People have to understand it. It's purely a natural thing.
There's nothing to be afraid of. It's, it's safer than baby oil to just
be applied to the foot of a small child.
CM: Really. Well you know what? We're gonna be talking about
oil of oregano as well as someone who had their son get better who was
actually really sick in hospital. So stay tuned okay. We've got lots of
information not only what's going on in Walkerton. Dr. Cass flew in to
be able to help the situation. We'll be right back.
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CM: The posters in Walkerton read - "THIS MEETING COULD SAVE
YOUR LIFE". Wednesday night was an event - E. coli without causing
any side effects. Dr. Cass Ingram was there and 250 of the towns 4,800
residents showed up. What was that all about Dr. Cass?
Cass: Yeah, that was an event that the local people arranged
and asked for my presence. They knew that I published heavily on E. coli.
They knew that I had extensive information to provide and they chose to
do that. Of course it was completely non-commercial. And, uh, wonderful
thing. Folks got highly educated about E. coli, the symptoms, the physiology,
the mechanism of the illness, perhaps the causes of why this came out.
And some answers, serious answers that are proven by scientific literature.
CM: What is the scientific literature out there?
Cass: Well, the scientific literature is two-fold. Number one,
the fact is that there are numerous germs that are impossible to kill with
antibiotics now, and they are all induced by our sort of germ warfare,
antibiotics, genetically engineered material. Uh, and uh, I conducted along
with four other investigators at Georgetown University in 1999, and continuing
in the year 2000, a monumental scientific study based on the work done
by the Greeks in 1996, and by Cavell, a Frenchman from 1918. When Cavell
in 1918 took septic water, sewage water, he inoculated the sewage water
with beef broth, as if sewage water isn't already bad enough. He puts beef
broth in it, feeds the stuff. And that's kinda what's happened in Walkerton,
actually, and all these other communities because....
CM: (....interrupted) They're saying that it's from the beef
anyway. Hee hee hee.
Cass: Oh, I didn't mean it that way.
CM: Huh Huh from the cows anyway, that's what you're trying.....(chortle
Cass: Well, I didn't mean it that way.
CM: Huh Huh
Cass: I didn't mean it as a "sacrificial calf".
CM: Heh heh
Cass: But, what happened is you've got organic material, you've
got global warming, you've got two warm winters, you've got a lack of a
good permafrost, and you've got an epidemic. O.K.? Forget all the other
comments, it's an epidemic. And, well in any case he inoculated it, he
then put in one drop of a number of essential oils, one of which was a
most interesting one, oil of oregano. He inoculated it, put a drop in what
would be a small glass of water. That's a glass of sewage water, one drop
of oil of oregano, he sterilized the water. He could not get anything to
grow out of that water. He could not find any bacteria.
In 1996, at the Univ...at the Journal of Agricultural Food Chemistry
at Thessaloniki, researchers took sewage water -- septic water, inoculated
the septic water, and used a wild high-mountain oregano vs. the farm raised,
used the high mountain wild in a 1:4000 dilution, sterilized the water.
Uh, it was Siddiqui (sp?) and his group who killed all viruses. It was
Wayne State University in 1999 who destroyed strep, drug-resistant strep.
And it took us to do it a stop further. I don't know if you know about
the atomic research in the 1950s, where they dropped the bomb and they
put out petri dishes.
CM: Uh hum
Cass: There were two things that survived the atom bomb.
Cass: (....Chuckle Chuckle Chuckle...) Cockroaches were
one, and I think probable people knew that. The one thing they don't know
is that candida albicans survived, a very difficult to kill fungus. So,
we took the most difficult to kill organisms that we had at the time in
1999. We plated it, we hit it with three drugs, including oil of oregano.
Uh, oil of oregano completely killed candida albicans, and one of the drugs
couldn't even kill it. We took mice and infected them.....you don't even
CM: Let me just ask you, everybody is going to think of this
as the stuff you put in spaghetti sauce. We're not talking about this.
Cass: Well of course it wouldn't be the same, we'd all be immune
to everything as much as we eat. But, for 50,000 years certain villagers
and primitives have selected out of 80 different types of spices and oreganos
one or two plants because of the high level of a substance called "carvitrol"
(sp.?), very high levels 60%, 70% and this actually is even mentioned in
the ancient bible as the word "ezov", which means the purifying herb, which
means the anointing herb, and it's the same herb that happens, in my opinion,
to be the "burning bush" that Moses was supposed to search for because
if you were to go to the Sinai, grab a bunch of oregano in a sweaty hand
it would burn like the dickens. And, there is no "hyssop" there.
So in any case ancient use but modern history we then injected....and
you say....for 50,000 years of human use why do you have to spend a lot
of money? It's just kinda nice to see both ways, the ancient use, the human
use, and some of the research. The mice were injected with candida and
they all croaked, everybody died in seven days. Except the everybody that
got the oil of oregano, a small amount, and all the mice lived.
Georgetown university said, and I had told Georgetown, I said "It's
gonna work". They said "How can you say that?" They are great people, I
said "It's just gonna work".
50,000 years of human use, ancient texts, ancient biblical texts.
So, so all the mice survived. Now, guess what? The most difficult to kill
germ, you have to have "space suits" to deal with it.
CM: Huh huh huh
Cass: Yeah, the "bubble men are in" and we're doing it
and it's working, drug resistant staph. E. coli is minor stuff. Even E.
coli:0157 is MINOR STUFF compared to drug resistant, vancomycin resistant
staph. It won't stand a chance.
CM: Unbelievable. We're gonna go to a caller. Is it Linda Kueneman
Linda: I'm good.
CM: You're a resident of Walkerton?
Linda: Actually, no I'm a resident of Mildmay.
CM: Where's that?
Linda: It is very close to Walkerton, 8 km.
CM: What's happening?
Linda: We have an epidemic, and we have to clean that up very,
very quickly. And I went to Dr. Ingram's seminar on Wednesday. I went a
skeptic and came out a believer.
CM: But...did you have the situation, what made you all of a
sudden to make the changes to go, you know "I need help". Did you go in
Linda: Umm, yes my son had it.
CM: How old's your son?
Linda: My son was, is 12.
CM: He's 12 years old.
Linda: And he developed the symptoms on the 13th. I called the
hospital on the 14th they told me it was the flu going around. Or actually
I called that day, sorry. It called the 13th, on the 14th I called them
back and said this is not the flu, my husband is on his way up, and he
was diagnosed with E. coli. Everybody in that emergency room was doubled
over. The phone was ringing off the hook. I mean...you know...
CM: And getting, where to you go? Wait in line.
Linda: So, I got angry and I called my MPP, Bill Murdoch, I called
the Health Unit, the Bruce-Grey Health Unit and I asked them why they were
not issuing warnings. They said they had samples that had not come back
yet. And I said why are you waiting, you know you have an epidemic happening
here. But, anyway, that's not either here nor there. Um, I watched my son
reduced to somebody that he never was. Um, Billy was a healthy young boy.
He sat on the toilet in the bathroom for four days and four nights.
CM: Oh my goodness
Linda: He never left, doubled over, bent over in pain,
with blood pouring out.
CM: Oh my gosh
Linda: So, I then again was angry and got on the internet
and started looking up stuff and then I started e-mailing and faxing papers,
media, anybody I could think of and saying there's something happening
up here, we're not getting answers, would you please send reporters up
and help us out?
Linda: O.K. Now Billy started to recover when the diarrhea was
abating. There's nothing you can do for it, so they say.
CM: Is that what they were telling you?
Linda: Absolutely. Tylenol with codeine for the pain
CM: Oh my God
Linda: But, they can not give antibiotics because that
will you know increase the risk for further toxins. So I....
CM: Oh as a mother what do you do? My goodness, when you've got
no other solutions, well hospital this is an emergency situation they can't
Linda: NO. They told me what to watch for, you know, I
mean the hospital was great, I can't criticize the hospital or the staff.
They were really really great. And they told me the signs and symptoms
to watch for, you know for dehydration or for kidney failure or anything
like that. Which I did. And um, when I heard that Dr. Ingram on the radio
when he was in Wingham, I went to his seminar, and I, I was very very skeptical
cause I, you know, about different things like that. But, he was so convincing
and had so much information, and they handed it out free. And they handed
out oil of oregano free to anybody that was there.
Linda: So, I came home and I gave it Billy, I also talked
to Dr. Ingram that night to make sure that I treated Billy correctly.
Linda: I came home that night and gave it to him, and I
gave it to him the following day, and he was a different boy.
Linda: He had no energy before that, he laid on the couch,
and couldn't even get up to eat. Um, he just was nothing, I mean he had
nothing there. He'd lost over 10 pounds. And um, he was by the second day
that I had given him this oil of oregano back to normal.
CM: That's good news. I'm really glad that your son's in
recovery, and that other people are taking the same medicine as well.
Linda: Well the thing is, it's not going to hurt them. You know,
it can't do any harm, and why wouldn't you try it? You know, I think it's
so ridiculous that medical professionals up here won't use it, I really
do. And we still have people dying and we still have people sent down to
London. We still have new cases happening. Private wells now are being
tested, and finding E. coli. You know it's not over.
CM: Thanks for your call, appreciate that Linda.
Linda: Thank you very much. thanks
CM: Thanks, bye-bye. We've made several people very happy
Cass, and hopefully it's working for them as well, too. You know let's
talk about this killer this E. coli which it is. It effects all the bladder,
the kidney, it just overgrows it overtakes you, there's no answers. Antibiotics
are not the answer as well. Um.
Cass: Well Christine, here's what happens, the E coli:0157H7
is a mutant germ. It has mutated to the degree that it is able to evade
immune defenses. It is able to evade the immune defenses that normally
inhabit the gut wall. It then, also because it is a supergerm it's a supergenetic
germ it pumps out fast amounts of an endotoxin. And that endotoxin is produced
by, while it's in the gut. That toxin rips to shreds the gut wall, induces
voluminous diarrhea, very similar to cholera. It's a cholera-like illness
that I'm seeing and hearing about, they die of dehydration. They die of
bleeding, you know. And they die of kidney failure because the toxin then
from this particular germ, it's a man-made thing. It gets into the blood.
CM: What is this oil of oregano? Is it a natural anti-septic?
Is it an antiviral, antibacterial, what is it?
Cass: That's the difference, isn't it? Antiseptic, it is
not an antibiotic. It does not induce genetic mutants. It kills germs by
exothermic reaction, by a fever reaction, by heat. I don't know how many
people out there have ever tried a good grade of oil of oregano, and that
is the one warning. As our dear lady said, the only side effect of a good
oil of oregano is you might get shocked and get well, despite our skepticisms
that are natural. And, I encourage a little bit of research and skepticism,
but not to the point of killing ourselves. In any case, the big side effect
is that you might get well, you will get well. And, it does this by exothermic
And the only precaution is to make sure that you get an edible oil of
oregano, in olive oil, the one I use, and the only one that's researched,
the only one's that the subject of modern research is oil of oregano when
it comes in the blue label and it has a white cap. Blue label -- white
cap. And, that's the one that's you need to use. Now there's a type you
need to know, there's a super-strength oil of oregano, and there's an oil
of oregano, they're both useful.
CM: We're now gonna be opening up the phone lines, it's 870-6400
on any call for Dr. Cass Ingram for anything about superbugs, superimmunity,
give us a call 870-6400 or 1-888-225-8255 if you're out of town. I'm Christine
McPhee with The Touch of Health, we'll be right back.
CM: (She then did some promotions and asked people to call her
after the show to answer the usual questions at 416-512-4872)...I've got
a great guest on, Dr. Cass Ingram who has written a book "Life Saving
Cures: How to Use the Most Powerful and Natural Cures of the 21th Century".
We've been talking about Waterton...Walkerton, and I'm going to open
the phone lines up, we've got some available 870-6400, 1-888-225-8255 if
you're out of town. Be persistent, get on and we can talk about many things
Dr. Cass. So, let's go to George, you've got a question for Cass?
George: Yes, I do have, and will oil of oregano help for
colitis, ulcerative colitis?
Cass: Well, yes, again if there's bacteria in the gut,
or yeasts, or fungi or invasive parasites that, you know, that are causing
damage in there and you take something like oil of oregano, particularly,
I love Oregamax. I had a bad case of irritable bowel from food poisoning
and it just cleared it right up for me. So, I do write about that in the
book, of course we're not here to diagnose or anything like that, but you
will find the information in the book on it. O.K.?
George: What is the book called?
Cass: "The Cure is in the Cupboard" would be the first
one for you, or the "Lifesaving's Cures" book, or both. You know, look
for both of them.
George: Are they available in Chapters?
Cass: Chapter can order them, or get to your health food
George: Oh, in the health food store.
CM: Thanks George for now.
Cass: Let's go to Fred. You have a bout of chronic fatigue?
Fred: Hello, is this Christine?
CM: Yes, hello.
Fred: Yes, hello, I had a question about candida albicans.
My question is about candida albicans and chronic fatigue and if oil of
oregano will help that?
Cass: Well, the fact is that oil of oregano is extremely good
for killing candida yeast. Now, there isn't anything out there yet for
chronic fatigue syndrome in terms of a clinical trial that I can tell you
the case histories in the book are pretty profound. I've received a number
of letters from people with chronic fatigue who improved dramatically.
And in the back of the book "The Cure is in the Cupboard" there's
a case history a child of a 31 year old whose live was completely changed,
who had "yeast syndrome". O.K.?
CM: Thanks Fred. Pick up the book. Let's go to Windsor,
Cass: Hello Jenna.
Jenna: I'm sorry I'm on my cell phone, can you hear me
o.k.? I've got, I've been diagnosed with generalized anxiety, and I'm just
wondering, I don't know if you have some suggestions for somebody that
is living with it?
Cass: Well, again, this particular thing has so many causes.
Do you eat wheat? Do you eat porridge and wheat and toast?
Jenna: No, no.
Cass: O.K., o.k. what's your favourite breakfast food?
Jenna: Errrrrrrr. When I eat it? I don't know, toast maybe, like
white bread, or a bagel or something.
Cass: Well, I thought that was the same as wheat? Last
time I saw....
Jenna: Giggle giggle giggle
Cass: Young lady, if you ate right. You know, I don't want
to put a guilt trip on you, but if we get you to eat a high protein breakfast,
I've found wheat to be a terrible depressant in people who are sensitive.
Yank the wheat. Yank the commercial grains. Eat nothing but fruits, meats,
and vegetables, you're gonna feel like a million bucks. (in a tuneful manner)
Jenna: A lot better, all right. Well, I'll try it.
CM: Keep us posted. Thanks. Calls and lines are available......
Let's go to Saaed from out of town
CM: What can we talk about?
Saaed: About flax see oil, would that help high cholesterol
Cass: Well, here's an interesting thing. High cholesterol
can be caused by essential fatty acid deficiency. And, if you eat foods
that are rich in essential fatty acids, or if you take flax seed oil, there's
a strong chance that you will have a reduction in cholesterol levels. A
high cholesterol level does happen to be a sign - symptom of essential
fatty acid, but a double handful of sunflower seeds and a couple of avocados
a day, I know it's shocking, and lots of nuts and seeds and a couple teaspoons
of flax seed oil is a preferable approach I think.
CM: Saaed thanks for your call. Let's go to Ed. What's your question?
Ed: Hello there, thank you for taking my call.
Cass: Yes Ed.
Ed: Dr., I've had interstitial cystitis for 14 years, and the
medical profession can't help me. What do you recommend?
Cass: There's some interesting research on the germ enterococcus.
It's a bacteria that's invasive and drug resistant that piles into the
wall of the bladder. There is some evidence to incriminate aspergillus
and candida albicans. There's a lot of evidence showing it's infection.
So you heard what we talked about. Read the books, there's a lot of information
in the "Lifesaving Cures" on bladder, bladder, bladder. Yaah.
Ed: Really, where will I find those books, sir?
Cass: "Lifesaving's Cures", Coles, any major bookstore,
or healthfood stores. Go to a healthfood stores and hound them, they'll
CM: Let's go to Ancaster, Mary, you've got a question
Mary: Hi, yeah, I'll ask quick, um. About four years ago
I came down with strep. I still feel dizzy, nausea, fullness in the stomach,
overall feeling unwell. I had just come back from Aruba. Could this help
me, the Oregamax? Should anybody be worried about taking it if you have
any kind of allergies to it?
Cass: Well, it's pretty tough to be allergic to wild, high mountain
extract, spice, like oregano. So don't worry about it. In fact it's quite
anti-allergy, so Oregamax would be a profoundly valuable daily supplement
for you, to build your immune system. Polish researchers took 40 different
herbs, your gingkos, your goldenseals, and all that. Only oregano popped
the immune system up, popped the interferon level. It's "ezov", it's ancient
"hyssop" of the bible. And it even neutralized poisoned hemlock, and in
ancient times old Socrates should have done a little oil of oregano. He
named it, "oreganos", the light of the mountains, it's Greek. What's
amatta wid doz guys?
CM: You know on a serious note, the townsfolk want to know
what you're going to be doing when you go back. Let's pour some of this
stuff into the wells and get that all sorted out in Walkerton. I'm Christine
McPhee with a great guest. We'll be right back.
Dr. Cass Ingram, Life Saving Cures, as well as the Cure is in
the Cupboard that you can pick up at any health food store, or you can
call any Walkerton related issues as well. Call this number, listen carefully,
get a pen.
Cass, I want to wrap it up with you. Is this really truly a quick fix solution
for Walkerton, this mini-epidemic?
Cass: It's not so much a quick fix, it's a definite substance
that can kill these kinds of terrible germs. It could be a way to actually
eradicate it in the water supply if we could get to the ministry. If we
could get this in the water supply there's ways to do it. But, for sure,
taking it's safe as a daily spice, powerful prevention, powerful remedy.
CM: Thanks for joining me, and as always for everyone listening,
be well and be responsible, and tune into the next hour. I'm Christine
McPhee, we'll be right back.
More to come........